Is God simple or complex?

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Is God simple or complex?

OmegaKV
I view him as being infinitely complex, which is why you cannot axiomatize nature.
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

Allen
Maybe you could unpack that statement a little.
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

R.C. Christian
In reply to this post by OmegaKV
OmegaKV wrote
I view him as being infinitely complex...
I share your view.

OmegaKV wrote
...which is why you cannot axiomatize nature.
Maybe I didn't understand your intent with this statement, but nature gets axiomatized all the time (nature is God is infinity). The correct way to axiomatize is to recognize patterns and use them as foundation for further thought development. Without recognizing patterns, there's no base for thinking and ultimately existence, since nature is nothing but patterns.
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

OmegaKV
R.C. Christian wrote
Maybe I didn't understand your intent with this statement, but nature gets axiomatized all the time (nature is God is infinity). The correct way to axiomatize is to recognize patterns and use them as foundation for further thought development. Without recognizing patterns, there's no base for thinking and ultimately existence, since nature is nothing but patterns.
I mean you cannot completely describe nature with just a small set of axioms. There seems to be always more to be learned.
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

R.C. Christian
OmegaKV wrote
I mean you cannot completely describe nature with just a small set of axioms. There seems to be always more to be learned.


Well, it's doable, but only with broad axioms. The more detail needed, the more patterns on more scales we need to include, and the amount of patterns and scales are also infinite, so it's sort of a dead end. But practically, it works. Things like weather prediction, manufacturing tolerances, aircraft maneuverability etc. do get more accurate with more detailed and greater amount of calculations, but in the end it's brute forcing.

On a philosophical plane, the chasing of knowledge is pointless. Once one realizes infinity, they will also realize the futility of trying to understand everything just for the sake of it.

On a practical plane, we will always be able to learn what we truly need (i.e. not just shortcuts to fill the void of where intelligence cannot expand, f.ex. helping the survival of the retarded).
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

Allen
In reply to this post by OmegaKV
Isn't that Godels Incompleteness Theorem?
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

OmegaKV
I guess so.
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Re: Is God simple or complex?

fschmidt
Administrator
In reply to this post by OmegaKV
What is simplicity and complexity?  One can define this to some degree as the amount of text (number of bytes) needed to express a concept.  But the amount of text depends on the language used, and the concepts embedded in the language.  So in effect, something is simple if it is easily expressed in common human concepts and is complex if the opposite.  Human concepts are the product of evolution, so we have those concepts most useful for hunting deer and avoiding lions.  The further we move from our common environment, the less well our concepts work.  This is why we have trouble with quantum mechanics and black holes.

The assumption about God is that God provides uniform rules for all of universe including what is far removed from human experience.  So this makes God very complex from a human perspective.

But the reason one cannot axiomatize nature is different.  Reality is not a mathematical system, not a product of the human mind.  Axioms are a product of the human mind.  So reality/nature cannot be axiomatized.